Nov 24, 2014

Palestine [Larousse (1939)]

Last weeks, an image has been circulated in the internet, spreading a lot of lies. It's a photograph of the flags appendix of the 1939 edition of Larousse Encyclopedia [click to zoom]:

What's so polemic about it? In the second page, third row, third column, iy's possible to see a flag labelled as "Palestine", whose design is like below:

Many people have argued that it's an ultimate proof that, before United Nations, the British Mandate of Palestine had already a Jewish character. Firstly, it's not an absolute proof: although the Larousse is usually one of most reliable encyclopedias, its flag appendix isn't. In the same image, you can see other wrong flags, like that of Morocco and Soviet Union. Actually, the supposed Palestine flag also appeared in the 1933 edition, also unreliable.

But isn't still possible that this flag flew in the British Mandate of Palestine? Probably not. The only flag officially flown on the Mandate, apart from the Union Flag, was its civil ensign:

But they should have taken this flag from somewhere, shouldn't they? Yes, they should, but they could have invented as well. It's chronologically possible that this flag was inspired by the proposed flag of the 1924 Jewish Cultural Congress:

But the British Mandate of Palestine was still predominantly Jewish, wasn't it? Well, I'm not a specialist in the matter, but the Mandate also included the area of current Kingdom of Jordan, and, with the restrictions on Jewish immigrants, it's unlikely. Sorry, Internet...

Comments are welcome.

You can alo check the Flaglog post.

14 comments:

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  2. You are a liar, you photoshopped the original image to discredit Larouse so that you could sell your anti-Semitism to the world. Here is the original image, showing a perfectly correct flag of the USSR. https://www.factualisrael.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Larousse-French-dictionary-from-1939-Palestine-is-Jewish-1024x535.jpg

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    1. I didn't Photoshop any image, it's one of the very same images that went viral these days!

      As I pointed out in the post, this flag has appeared on at least two editions of Larousse: 1933 and 1939. What you have here is probably a third different edition (notice how Germany and Syria flags are from different periods). Anyway, it also contains many errors, so your basic argument is invalid: Venezuela flag went obsolete in 1905 (i.e. it's decades outdated); Colombia (number of star points) and Paraguay (central circle missing) are also wrong; and, finally, Morocco flag is still wrong, just differently wrong (correct flag has a pentagram, not a voided star)!

      Anyway, comparing Larousse scans against Larousse scans is useless. A much better proof would be a legitimate, well-sourced period photograph, or a remaining flag that could be dated (by radiocarbon or other more or less reliable method), just for instance. It's very unlikely only Larousse would have reported a national flag.

      P.S. It's always good to point out that, but I'm not antisemite or anti-Zionist, and I'm deeply sorry if I ever sounded like that.

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  3. "although the Larousse is usually one of most reliable encyclopedias, its flag appendix isn't. In the same image, you can see other wrong flags, like that of Morocco and Soviet Union. Actually, the supposed Palestine flag also appeared in the 1933 edition, also unreliable."

    Just because YOU don't like it it's UNRELIABLE?
    Actually, the Moroccan & USSR flags DO IMPART the essence of which countries they represent...
    AND... The British Mandate over Palestine was for CREATING THE JEWISH HOMELAND, therefore the UNIVERSAL UNDERSTANDING WAS that it is - as prescribed in The Bible the home OF THE JEWS!
    ANOTHER BUT... The British had on official documents - like MONEY! - inscribed in HEBREW פלשתינא א"י -- which means PALESTINE LAND OF ISRAEL !!
    In addition to the flag - the web site also has a news-reel of Australia vs Palestine football (soccer) match -- and the PALESTINIAN are clearly JEWS - having the MACABI logo that is shaped as the STAR OF DAVID!

    https://www.factualisrael.com/australia-vs-palestine-football-match-1939-were-the-palestinians-arabs-or-jews/

    And to boost the truth even more -- The British took the land from the Osmani (aka Ottoman) Empire - TURKEY! SO there WAS NO PALESTINE STATE!!! Yasser Arafat - the marauding symbol of so-called Palestinians was born in CAIRO EGYPTin 1929 before ISRAEL became a state! Israel did not take his LAND!
    Same with the other SOBs - Abu Mazen is SYRIAN and ERAQAT is Jordanian! The whole Husseini Clan are from IRAQ !!!
    The Land IS THE LAND OF ISRAEL - the UNIVERSAL UNDERSTANDING in 1939 was represented in Larousse with that FLAG you hate so much!
    There was no ARAB FLAG OF PALESTINE even represented ANYWHERE !

    The British STOLE THE LAND and gave more than half of it to The Hashemite Clan (also Syria & Iraq) as reward for their support in the war!

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  4. "But the British Mandate of Palestine was still predominantly Jewish, wasn't it?"

    No, it was not.
    At the start of the Mandate the Jewish demographic was less than 10% of the population.
    At the end of the Mandate it was around 30% of the population (I say "around" because some apologist for Israel, claiming it was 32%, took umbrage at me saying it was 30% - as if there was some immense difference!)
    So, as you can see, Jewish people were a minority in the land throughout the Mandate period.

    As to the comment from Al Catraz about Arafat, BOTH of his parents were Palestinians (mother from Jerusalem, father from Gaza) and Jews must believe that descent from ancestors validates a claim to nationality because they claim a right to "return" to a land because ancient ancestors might have come from the region. Additionally, all but one of the signatories to the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel came from Europe and Russia and could not have traced any provable ancestry in the land if they had tried. His comment about Arafat etc. is a prime example of Israeli apologists' chutzpah.

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    2. Jews represented the majority of inhabitants on the day Israel was declared an independent state. Jews were majority of inhabitants of Jerusalem for hundreds of years. Jews were majority inhabitants of Hebron prior to the Egyptian invasion of the 1830s.

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  5. Your blog post here is inaccurate. Really a lie. The British Palestine Mandate flag was NOT the flag of the Mandate but of the Mandatory.

    Mandatory( a state supervisor to help build or for Jews rebuild their state up tona point where the beneficiaries of said Mandate would take over ( Independence) and the Mandatory step down.

    The Larrouse flag is correct since the Mandate was for restoring Israel / Palestine to the Palestinians ( Jews) for centuries and until the 1950s Palestine.and Palestinian meant Lamd of Israel/ Jewish Homeland and Jews which is why it was selected to be the name of the Mandate.

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  6. Actual arabpalestinian flag is of 1964 and a version accepted by Jordan (there 78% is fi/fa-listin (arab, turk) = plistim/f'lastim (jewic,jew.loanword) = palestiem, rest mostly Ammån and Moab tribes as descend from Lot,nephew/fam. of Abraham/Ibrahim.).. The french Larouse, as a jew ānd palestine mix, is accurat for that previous year(s), like atlasses also renowned as ultraprecise. Aswell Israel as Britain as Ottoman had more flags for this area, not all were official. I saw the Larouse flag on several real historic photo's and arabs and jews of old age know it was the temporare publical and official flag, the red-one was a commonwealth flag equal official but not accepted by all, perhaps most, locals.. Like Canada had a second popular flag and a redflag with 3 green mapleleafs and the GB unionflag in corner; Canadians pressed the c'wealth flag away by referendum after or still WW2.. A time unto 1957 both flags were valid. Larousse also looked to flag mostly used by public and by most important buildings and usef photo's. Of course there are photoshopped photo's, for example a turkish film on Palestine1920 showing the 1964 PLO flag, its invention is registrated at Fata'h-PLO in Ramallah their real PA actual capital. I could view more photo's a also palestinian in fotobooks and saw the Larousse one. Maroc even had 5 flag changes, Venezuela 2or3 in 1 year.. Larousse decided the one accepted by People's League; some countries did as if in peace but had tribal/group wars in provinces, not rare in Maghreb and Maroc, where besides pentagram star also Davidstar had a place as a royal arabmaroc symbol too, also Westafrica British territories had it. Arabs saw it those days also as their or a royal symbol; King Salomo had arabs and jews togethet. In 1855-1859 Mark Twain as 'under minister' (now secretary..) for foreignaffairs & census, made several scientific researches from archeology unto people, race and tribes locations and populace amounts by asking tribal princes; ±12.752 inhabbitants were init, half of them jews, even half westbank halfjewish, most in own villages scattered through each others and most mostly in harmonic peace for a time.. After 1860's jews and arabs in a competition to be honest, for might keep reason, massaly entered, reaching each oddly in rare balance of 181.000 about.. i know of other lesser control-led ciffers, this is official.. Official could be +/- 5% of truth here. Jerusalem and c'Hebron (with Ch as in Bach in hebrew,i use c'H for recognit.) had slight majority of ab.4% before pogroms in resp. 1936 and 1928-'29.. Must say that although ½ of mob that murdered was arab, ⅓ of Hebron took in home 'half' of fled population, to hide(!), while rest was murdered or a little group fled. The jewish had also a 'naqba'(chaotic disaster), alike the arabs, so both sides had hawks and doves, missing the unite chance as in Canada with Québec and Nouveau+New Brunswick a byw.former german collony NeuBraunschweig.. Who still knows btw! Holland had orange white blue unto 1937 as officialflag but on the seas red white blue aswell in Amsterdam itself and locally else.. for better visibility, it was also antimonarch flag that won 1945 to takeover.. Officially Larousse showed the ōfficial flag.. The commonwealth flag was due popular division, seeing it as too colonial, also as arabpalestinian aswell as israeli palestinian (called also palestineman in geographic sence, read article 24 of PLO manifest please!, denying palestine as race but as geographic region of whole from jordan to westcoast - stating). Peoples' League as predecessor of UN also accepted this popular flag since 1924 which in fact could be older in use inofficial even amoung Turkic ottoman rule(1517-1917 of Palestine that included Jordan and in begin parts of Sinai and Iraq unto Euphrath, (see Gen.15:18-21, Joshua 1 and Deut.1:1-8) before 1917.

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  7. 2) Also on Olympic Games hold partly by Olympiade and by dictator Adolf.. where 'Palestine' flag flew in tops as Larousse on some photos in grey tones, to 'trandlate' by technicolor filmfiltertechnics in the shew up colours, but original flags exist-ed/-s. Similar British flags without the Patrick Cross of Ireland still exists but not official had Germany more versions, the kaisertime flag was not in ban in practis, it still hung amoung many more awful naziflags. Another point: in 1918 aswell 1947-48, jews were farmore than 10%, even near 50% more and more see-in, since BBC and UK gov. used low jew figured to stem mild arabs aswell orthodox section-Sephardic jews from NorthEurope and USA who saw ashkenazi jews as nonjews, by thinking many were mixed; truth is sephardic in Latin America and Latin S.Europe were too, due arabs and moores.. aswell all since Egyptdrawout; and since Salomo invitation of many guest peoples; half of all jews i guess is mixed, pure jews only 12½%, real filistine after bone drybloodmolecul remnants (then a secret jew.) study conclude after enwuête like probes on thousands in 1940s-'60s shewn
    that only 6% of real 'greek dna.. + arab cashluchi, see Gen.10'(-filistine) fili- or arab-pallestininan is pure, 3% mixed, makes 9%. Most are from arab nations abroad of immigrations since 1859 upto 1966 aswell jews started immigration hugely same time, a little minime one 1824 unto 1840's of few hundreds, jews and arabs, turks, beduines, druz, maor(z)i (oriental gypsies).. It is conplex, i appreciate the fair discern discoarse of the article holder, although i see his and mine previous mistakes. In gentlemen ship i try to ask to change a bit the page and show all the -known- historic flags of Palestine as more than 2, the Larouse is the by preUN Peoples Legue accepted most official one that govern-ments in local palest.ground used too aside commonwealth briton-stressing flag,as mostly by inlanders, jews ānd palestines, not embraced british one, it is though accepted by british law,indirect beit, too; It was contested since it had some independecy init the british did not like, the star was in a style both arabs and jews saw as royal first and theirs as of the land folk flag/phon, secondly. In a jewish film in East Germany 1946, another nonofficial-Israel flag is shown innseries of GDR anthem, all wear kippa(kepple, yarmoucle) the jew' cap, local or at particuliar groups also the women and female childeren, 2 blue lines horizontal as now abive and below fir sea, river and sky, heaven, but here the one of Basler Zionist Congress, the 1st version with real golden star instead of blue, flashing apartly beautiful in sky. As from arab side i favor the two in 1 solution the Mandat once was, but in way of Balfour 1917+1922 San Remo Act wanted as partly luke Isaha 19 2nd part. A Swiss union of 3 big States and init iles of mini states.. An advantage and own discussion we do not start over here.
    It is good to share thought-&'facts' but best to do this civilized adultly with respect and showing gēntle links or referings to proofs and testify things. A Davidstar was found in archelogy in Israel dating 2200 years back in a synagogue ruïne and as king seal on old documents of then .. they prõofed to cō-existance. shalom & salam, mutual highgrade peace wished you all!��

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  8. 3) Werner van der Wal - 'Winchester - Paolith Thomaç is about my full name, 58½, also historic known, with jewish (both) parents and mixed arabic-palestinian grandgrandmother, so mixed in both cultures; manymore are but hidden like it is sensativ and persecuted in some regions. There is lot cooperation by both for 2/+ in 1 nation too, it grows. A flag can unite and disperse.. The1939Larouse's one united and had been accepted as 1st rank flag above the red commonwealth one, see above. Here stops for now, my particupation. I hoped it helped both sides in clearing.

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Every comment is greatly welcome!